This is a spiritual state where the person is unable to come out of his obstinate attachment to various methods and at the same time being aware of the possibilities of freedom from all this, suffers from a crisis of conscience. This may be the stage of change over of gurus, change of paths and certain times this may be also due to the weakening in the original determination of the goal. This is a preliminary state of experience of hell.

The electrons are orbiting around the nucleus in different orbits (or different energy levels). For the electron to change its orbit would mean shedding away or gaining enormous energy causing a great disturbance to its existing state. The mental anguish of a person at this state is similar.

Turmoil is a physical concept, anguish is psychological concept. In some sense, they may be the same, this is psychological equivalent. Master passed away, that is a physical problem. You are attached to him, you don't know the alternatives. Should we continue with him or should we continue with the next person? Several alternatives have come. You have got one group pitted against the other, one alternative against the other. What is your state of mind? So, the stage of leaving a guru, gets forced on you at certain times. Now, in this case it is a physical veiling. In some cases, because of the grace, you come to know what to do.

Disillusionment is the consequence of it. This is the state earlier, the anguish leads to disillusionment, the first stage is anguish.

Any person, if you are going to get yourself attached to one person at physical level, you are bound to have this problem. When you magnify it beyond a proportion, this is what will happen. That is why no sensible guru has ever claimed himself to be God. In spite of all the qualities that Master had, he never claimed himself to be anything other than another human because you will not have this problem. Most of us survived this shock mainly because we have accepted Him at our level though we know that He is a very great person and we also came to know about spirituality, we survived. Those who could not survive this shock, went immediately to the next person, compromise. 'What is our fate? What else can we do? We have got to have one person'. Those people who are not strong spiritually, naturally seek some support. Whatever they get, they catch hold of it. It is not their fault. There is nothing wrong with people who go to someone, that is their level, but anguish has led them to that conclusion. Don't think they have not gone through anguish. Everyone of them has gone through anguish. That is their choice. They thought that they are not sufficiently strong enough. So, where have they got astray, in shraddha before. They were not feeling that the means, and confidence in themselves was not sufficient for that. And the Goal, they had to bring it down, to the physical level, they had to. So once, they brought it down to that level, they were able to accept. So, the living Master is a compulsion on their conscience. They cannot otherwise live, something they have to accept. Otherwise, they will become sick, mentally sick. Even in day to day life we keep seeing a guru, we know that he is no good, yet we are helpless. If you had trusted a guru who was boastful, this state is unavoidable. You come to know later that this fellow is a crook.

The anguish that is felt when someone laments leaving their pujas and other things is of a superficial level. It is actually a problem of ahamkar. Someone had once come and asked whether their sadhana has gone waste since they had not done A and B. The reply was it is basically that. They were doing many other things, incidentally also they were spending some time here. It is not as though they were meditating. Even as a grinding stone, they were sitting quiet physically. We don't have to bother about such anguishes. The place where the difficulty that has come with our system is , Lord Venkateshwara is compatible to Satya Sai Baba is equal to compatible with Shirdi Sai Baba is equal to compatible with Meher Baba. We say unfortunately RamChandra Ji is not compatible. The moment you accept the compatibility here, the problem is solved. Allow them to put this photo also along with the other things in the room, no problem for them and no problem for you. That is the best solution for that. We don't have to take them seriously.

Someone asked why we don't permit others to do meditation with us saying what they did also was meditation. In other systems, anyone can sit and keep doing meditation. Here since something called transmission that happens, if they don't accept that, then it becomes troublesome for us. It is only to protect ourselves, we do not permit them. You must know how to meditate at least here, and they should be in a position to receive the transmission. If you deny that and say that you will sit in meditation, and something may happen to you, then we are responsible. We will be responsible for it, that is why we do not permit. Otherwise, it is a very simple question. Any person will ask you saying that you are meditating, I am also doing meditation, what is the objection you have got? I am not creating any disturbance, I am not going to scratch your head nor your back, I want to sit along with you. Why don't you allow me to sit? Because here Pranahuti is there, we got the link with the ultimate source of consciousness, we do not want people who do not know how to meditate, to sit there. If you know now to meditate on the heart, we will permit you to do it. If they sit and start doing bhajan, problems will come.

An example - There was an agricultural officer in Tirupati. Babuji Maharaj had come to Tirupati. Rev. K. C. Narayana came away saying that his guru has come. The officer also wanted to come with him. All the discussions ended and there was no problem. All of a sudden Babuji Maharaj said that those who are not introduced into the system, may kindly withdraw. This officer was sad, his ego had been hurt. Upon asking why Babuji said so, Rev. K.C.Narayana said since he was not introduced, he must leave. The officer asked is that it? The reply was that's it, compliance means compliance. He was fretting and fuming. He asked am I not fit, don't I do meditation, am I not pure? The reply was that all that he was saying is correct, but the Master has asked you to leave, please leave. Generally Master never used to say that, but he said on that day and this person was the only person not introduced. This is a preliminary level of atmakshoba. It a problem that comes with ahamkar.

That is not what is intended here. What we say is when there is a problem that arises when there is a real change of Master, we don't know what to do.

Another incident - Bro. Seshadri had come crying to Rev. K.C.Narayana's house. Upon asking as to why he was crying, the reply was that Babuji Maharaj had passed away. He was asked to calm down and then enquired upon if he has taken a bath. Upon asking why, it was explained to him that since he had brought the news of death, his heart is sad and he must take a bath. After he had taken the bath, they sat in meditation. After meditation, upon asking if he had felt the transmission or not, he replied in the affirmative. He told that Babuji Maharaj had not gone anywhere and that he was with us, and did not speak after that. That is the practical way of telling. He is available with us. So long as he is available, he is very much with us.

In olden days, when husbands used to die, the wives used to feel sad a lot, beating their chests and cry. When the guru passes away also, the same situation arises. One of the brothers, Bro. Sarnath when asked as to how his state of mind was, replied 'What is to say Narayana, it is a state of widowhood'

For various reasons we may feel anguish. Here, the anguish we are talking about it is, we going on a path, we have come to know this is not the correct method, or we have been cheated, all this, that anguish is different.

Behind the physical body (bhautika sarira), there is a bhuta sarira that continues after the death also. It has all the feeling and all the emotions connected with it and attachment also. For sometime it is restricting itself to the physical location. At that time it is called a preta. Preta sarira ceases after sometime, but the bhuta sarira continues. It is this that goes through the torture of the tamasic world of hell and enjoys at the rajasic world of heaven. The preta may be present for about 1 day or the traditional 13 days and may persist even after that. For sometime, it gets attached to the physical place. Unless it is disgusted with the body, it would like to be with the body.

Experience of hell is a separate subject. It is when the mind is tamasic. There are two stages - one, tamasic and the other, tamasic coupled with rajasic. These are all place of kshob, absolute misery is felt. You know that you are attached to it, you will also try to be angry. There will anger, anguish, everything. The next stage is of enjoyment. There are four layers actually, rajasic, rajasic and satvic and other two before. You can definitely move into it and see your people. It is question of confidence and enormous concentration is required and not worth it also, but there will lot of anguish. There might be some happiness at the higher levels and every person is pushed out to the higher plane. It is a generalization made by purohits that people who do some good and lot of bad first go to the higher plane and then come to the next plane. And your experience of two worlds will also depend upon the people with whom we are associated earlier. It might be your family, sometimes we don't know how to recognize them also. They don't know how to recognize you, you don't know how to recognize them but none of the ancestors stay in this plane for more than 20 years. They either come down or go up. For satvic people also, they stay at the satvic layer for sometime and may come back, because liberation is not there.

Kshoba is an experience. Hell means kshoba. The approximate equivalent I know about in the physical plane is the giant wheel.

The question may come as to how one can enjoy hell. For anyone who has tasted beer, they enjoy the bitterness. That is the answer. When we go to a cinema we know what kind of emotions you get there. Why do we go there? So, by option you are in hell. If someone askes if a man can be in hell by option, we can say this is the example. The truth is we punish ourselves. It is our action which gives the punishment. God does not punish us. A cruel God is somebody who is known to the west, not to the east. Ours is a benevolent God.

Only people who have ill will, envy, jealousy, greed will be in this plane. One who has crossed this will remain above. So this atma kshoba also is something that we get out of attachmet. If you are attached to Him, there is no atma kshoba as in my case because I never accepted that he has left me. A person called me offering a ticket to Shahjahanpur, I refused to go. He said, why don't you come, you love the Master so much. I love Him so much, that I do not see the separation. You love him only so much in body, that is why you want to run. For me Babuji is never a body. The problem is getting stuck to the body. If there is no body to cling on to, where is the question of atma kshoba. The atma kshoba that we get is when people are not true to the system and are spoiling His name. That hell is what I have gone through and I know what it is. That is why when someone does not present the system properly, I get upset. I cannot take it easily, it is my kshoba. That is my attachment to it, because we are not making a good system available to others. We are depriving others of a good system. So long as attachment is there, kshoba will be there.

The problem of Hanuman himself was that. He could never accept Krishna. His attachment was always to Rama. He was not prepared to accept. There was always this problem for him. The same thing Jambavanta also had. They could not accept the change of the Master. They don't accept that the same Master has come now. Unless you show me I will not accept, but the feeling at that time is atma kshoba. Both of them accepted later but during the period they had the kshoba.